Are These the Troops We're Supposed to Support? »
Posted By Neophile 1 year, 4 months ago in NewsA video has surfaced on YouTube of a soldier boasting and laughing about the abuses he committed on Iraqis. Let's not be coy, suggesting that this is Bush's fault, or that this is just the war. This is the logical outcome of male socialization in our imperial core. This started far earlier than the war.
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Comments So Far: 420
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icelander1 year, 4 months ago
This video sent chills down my spine. This is absolutely the worst thing I've ever heard.
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CrazyRay1 year, 4 months ago
...but it's a YouTube video, there's no proof the guy is a legit soldier or anything...Stan Goff really needs to verify this video before writing an article, using it as the entire basis of his story
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populist1 year, 4 months ago
well, maybe this video is real and maybe it's not. But the fact remains that in war, atrocities always happen. It brings out the absolute worst in human nature, and we'll always find abuses, torture and needless killing.
War isn't the glorious liberation that it's often portrayed as. It's ugly, destructive and murderous....and many people suffer for their whole lives after going through such horror.
Some additional reading on this:
"What Is War?"
http://www.populistamerica.com/what_is_war
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UBCONFUSE1 year, 4 months ago
Oh my! This is the second utterance of wisdom from Populist I agree with in a 30 day period. Maybe the world is starting to tilt to the middle.
Thank you Populist, there is hope for you yet.
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IncaQueen1 year, 4 months ago
Precisely right CrazyRay. The vast majority of our troops are honorable men and women, whose morals, for the most part, are a cut above. To generalize all of our troops in this fashion, is as far as I'm concerned, pure trash. The article, the person who wrote it, and the paper it was used on needs to be turned into toilet paper.
And I agree with populist. The fact remains that in war, atrocities always happen, on both sides. you cannot expect everyone to watch their best friend killed right beside them or blown up, or watch one of these Muslim terrorists blow up innocent women and children, and not have a reaction to it. Some people are just plain animals...its just that simple!
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anewperspective1 year, 4 months ago
Thats as bad as the $hi head that sees every Iraqi or Arabian as a threat to their personal sercurity. Thats like the terrorist looking at every american as someone that is trying to rape thier land. Its the prez I didn't elect to send them over with no clear mission other than to rape that countries land, people, and resources.
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amesburyroad1 year, 4 months ago
My experience, and I have quite a lot since 1973, is that, no, the majority of our troop's morals are not, for the most part, a cut above.
This is a guilt fantasy of people who never served and do not want to criticize persons who defend their country and serve in a military that they, these people, because of their economic status, and the absence of a just draft, do not have to participate in.
My own experience was, even if I did not receive "support the troops" "love", I was not "demoralized" and "shattered" by this lack of support as the never have served their country Fox News mouthpieces have conned America into believing the "troops" need to survive day to day.
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LordyLordy1 year, 4 months ago
Unbelievable from populist! Well done my friend. I believe you're starting to see the light. Welcome to the real world and not the fantasy world. Many of us that have served in wars really don't want to talk about the gory details. It is simply too horific at times.
Now I might even believe that pigs can fly? Because this article above is about the biggest concentration of bovine excretment I've ever seen...in others words pig poop!
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LordyLordy1 year, 4 months ago
I was over 40 before they stopped putting me in combat roles, and when I was over 50 they began to forget I was even in in-active reserves. Age has it perks, but not many! (lol)
Sadly enough I can be recalled for life, although I'm quite sure when I cannot get out of my rocker, and have to holler into that device, "I've fallen and can't get up" they might stop sending me notices?
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TCmuench1 year, 4 months ago
I'm 48 now and "rumor controll" has my unit coming up for rotation in '08. In '03 we had 2 Vietnam vets in our compnay and I ran into several several more.
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LordyLordy1 year, 4 months ago
war is just a game....grins, a very dangerous one.
anyone who has ever had to participate in one rarely likes to recall the bad memories. Instead they focus on the good times, hoping Jack Daniels will help them forget the other.
shhhh....them medals are just for pitching tents? It's the adult boy scouts?
The Bronze Star and the Silver Star are not given out because you can shine your boots better than anyone else, just in case you were in doubt? The Medal of Honor is given out even less frequently. The last one that comes to my mind was Audie Murphy, although I know there are a few others.
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amesburyroad1 year, 4 months ago
And you know you would like to deny him that freedom of speech because he doesn't talk a good Fox News line, right?
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Natureboy1 year, 4 months ago
we'll always find abuses", torture and needless killing.
Particularly when abuses, torture and needless killing are winked, at, condoned or even mandated by superior officers.
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injest1 year, 4 months ago
well, maybe this video is real and maybe it's not. But the fact remains that in war, atrocities always happen. It brings out the absolute worst in human nature, and we'll always find abuses
So why fake stories about abuse?
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icelander1 year, 4 months ago
Doesn't have to be real. The fact that someone can talk nonchalantly about stuff like that is scary enough.
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scabbio1 year, 4 months ago
it all about shock value today, i can't trust it.. but i completely agree with icelander. even thinking such crap is disgraceful
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IncaQueen1 year, 4 months ago
I won't even call him a punk. He's a liar, and probably if he were ever in Iraq, he would spend most of the time with his pants soiled. (his shoes an odd yellow stain on them?)
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tchef1 year, 4 months ago
This video is old. I saw it about a year ago. Yes some of our soldiers go overboard (putting it mildly) but I don't believe that it is representative of the majority of our soldiers.
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bobo-in-texas1 year, 4 months ago
Remember Jesse MacBeth?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Macbeth
He was the "Army Ranger" who's video claiming that he had killed hundreds of Iraqis was both a complete hoax and excitedly received by so many in the Left. He even was active in Iraq Veterans Against the War an, outfit that the author is also involved with.
Not very credible to say the least.
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SusanParrishComment removed: User banned.2 Replies
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injest1 year, 4 months ago
Sorry, Bud, but what he said had nothing to do about hating America.
Depends, what was the motivation to make a bogus clip.
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injest1 year, 4 months ago
icelander
Doesn't have to be real. The fact that someone can talk nonchalantly about stuff like that is scary enough.
Icelander, have you ever seen a movie? It make icelander
Doesn't have to be real. The fact that someone can talk nonchalantly about stuff like that is scary enough.
Icelander, have you ever seen a movie?
It's make believe, much like this story.
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dissent1 year, 4 months ago
Drunk at the keyboard. Is it too much to ask that you edit and clean up your comment BEFORE you post it?
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dunkirk1 year, 4 months ago
Yet the righties post an article a few days ago that details AL Queda atrocities and its interesting that NOT ONE right winger questioned its authenticity or if it was even verifiable. Just the usual "Libs should see this, etc". How interesting.
In case your wondering, I agree with you that it should be verifiable however I always find it interesting that the right ONLY seems to question that when its a liberal/Dem/Ind posting the article and accept it as gospel from a righties (in this case, especially from KOT)
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cherev1 year, 4 months ago
"How interesting"
What's interesting to you? That we right-wingers accept certain stories about those who want to murder us while you lefties have your doubts? Or that you lefties gleefully believe any negative story about our troops, President, Republicans, etc., but question stories portraying the depths of the depravity of Muslim terrorists?
No need to answer. The questions are rhetorical. But they do illustrate the differences in our value systems. I am pleased with my values as I'm sure you are with yours. But, although we may live in the same country, the divide between us just grows and grows. I'm sure the Muslim terrorists are thrilled with how we view each other.
It might be interesting to see how many libs neg this comment. But, overall this seems to be a bash America thread so I'll just leave you to it.
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thirdculturekid1 year, 4 months ago
Being patriotic does not mean one cannot critique the negative aspects of one's country. Being patriotic means standing up for and fighting for the very best for and of one's country, and I (and I hope everyone will agree with me) do not feel that lies, corruption, and cruelty are things to uphold.
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jdhatl1 year, 4 months ago
You're my enemy buddy. I don't give a f*** about some Hajji their being a threat in this situation is YOUR fault
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Daylight1 year, 4 months ago
p27w
Being unpatriotic (traitorous) means grasping upon any propaganda that would help our enemies, and mindlessly believing it, without considering the source, or verification
You need to consider the source of 9/11 propaganda before you accept it,and it is the American government which was undoubtedly involved to start a war on terror, where Bush & his gang could steal the wealth 0f the Middle East. Why should he invade Iraq? WMD!
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IncaQueen1 year, 4 months ago
You don't do it while your soldiers are in the field you moron! Maybe you'd like to stand in line and spit in their faces, even if this atrocity was true. My guess is that this little darling hasn't spent a day in Iraq. Most vets that I know of don't want to talk about the kills they had to make, let alone one they might have enjoyed. If this kid brags about it he is either a liar or needs physchiatric help now. My guess is that it's the first. The only thing he has done is lie and you're stupid enough to believe it and pass the BS on.
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IncaQueen1 year, 4 months ago
Another man who has obviously never served in the military.
I suppose you think its wrong to defend your wife against a rapist too? You just stand back and watch, hoping the guy will just go away? Sorry you wouldn't even make it to my couch, much less alone my bedroom. I want a man not a boy, even if he would lose, he'd still try to defend me. That gets my respect not cowardice.
No, there are times when you have to defend yourself, have to fight and kill if you are a soldier. Even the Centurian at the foot of Jesus's cross understood that. Every day our policemen are put in the same situations, not all, but some. They make life and death decisions, often in less time than it takes us to sneeze. Of course there is also no need for a fireman to rush into a burning building to save someone because he did not start the fire? So all of your policemen know they did something wrong too. You are too looney for words....
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LordyLordy1 year, 4 months ago
Sorry I took it the same way too, "A soldier generally doesn't want talk about war because they know they did some thing wrong", like they were feeling guilty about being a soldier period.
Many way out groups in this country refuse to serve in the military, won't give blood, but they show up to vote every election. They are so heavenly minded they are of no earthly good? I get the gist that's exactly what she read, and it was what I initially felt too.
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bill-smith1 year, 4 months ago
Ah, the old "spit on the returning vets" line. Is it possible for you to actually make a salient arguement or observation without pulling out the tired cliches?
At best the "person" in the video is a liar. At worst he's admitted to war crimes hasn't he? Do I believe that he is indicative of all soldiers in the Middle East? No, I do not. But to dismiss his statements out of hand is not the prudent thing to do. We-America-need to look into this and act upon what we find, regardless of politics.
To disagree is not disloyal. To question is not unpatriotic. To ask hard questions and expect realistic answers is not traitorous. Even in a time of war.
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zaph221 year, 4 months ago
"To question is not unpatriotic."
Wouldn't the first thing someone being patriotic would do is try to determine if there is any truth to the claims made in the story before being critical of anyone else. Confirm the validity first, before using the claims as reason to criticize. Then once you know if it's true, or not, would be the time to comment on this. That is if people really want to be honestly able to comment on the issue, or does the truth matter here?
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colin57041 year, 4 months ago
at this point in the thread, no one has bashed America. The closest thing was a comment saying war atrocities happen, and that wasn't anti-american or anti-soldier. in fact, the overall tone of the thread seems to me to be as pro-soldier has it possibly could be with several calls to verify the video.
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scabbio1 year, 4 months ago
right. patriotism has less to do with waving a flag and being supportive.
sometimes, to be a good parent, you have to make your kids cry.
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IncaQueen1 year, 4 months ago
Don't you know, making your kids cry is hurting their self esteem and spanking them just teaches them to hit, so says the social workers and those who have never had children, nor ever would be able to raise rational human beings.
Patriotism can simply being supportive, waving your flag, and when your soldiers come home on leave, you thank them, shake their hands, let them know they are loved. That does more for their self esteem and morale than stupid articles like this!
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scabbio1 year, 4 months ago
i abhor it when people turn any war related topic to some kind of contest to support troops.
WE ALL HAVE FRIENDS AND FAMILIES IN THE SERVICES THAT WE SUPPORT. i digress.
i will try again.
patriotism sometimes includes the criticism of your country.
what if the IIHS hadn't told auto manufacturers to improve safety? the mfr's would still be producing cars without crumple zones and seatbelts etc. cause all of that stuff costs money. BUT SOMEONE HAS TO BE THE BEARER OF BAD NEWS.
so i apologise for my previous example, formally to you, INCA, and to all the abused children of the world.
funny thing is that you knew exactly my point to begin with
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scabbio1 year, 4 months ago
oh and another thing, sometimes, when you get you feelings hurt when someone is mean to you.. you are better off for it. you learn self sufficiency, you learn to trust yourself, you learn to be your own person.... i was not coddled and frankly, i am happy about it. my parents spanked the crap out of me. you know what that tought me? NOT TO DO THINGS THAT GOT ME SPANKED LOL
ok i am really done LOL
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IncaQueen1 year, 4 months ago
I swear you fail the common sense test scabbio. You cannot compare auto safety standards, safety seat standards, or motorcycle standards to criticism of your soldiers while they are on the battlefields. You're actually endangering your own children and your neighbors while you are doing that!
You don't tell your enemy when you're coming, you don't tell them your rifles and ammunition is scarce, you don't tell them you think your own leaders are idiots. That just emboldens your enemy.
Good grief man, even an 8th grader can figure that out! You've obviously never worn the uniform of this country nor fought for it or you'd be as indignant as some of us for your criticism. I haven't fought either but I've had brothers and relatives that have.
Think about it. There is no comparison of auto manufacturers to the war front. You're actually causing the deaths of some of our soldiers. That ought to make you sleep well, but I doubt you realize it's what you're doing!
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IncaQueen1 year, 4 months ago
I hate war but it is what it is.
If you don't WIN, you LOSE, and if we lose it over there, I'd bet you your house, they're coming here next, as if they havn't already.
War isn't a game, and if you think it is, let's put a matel toy soldier uniform on you and send you over there buddy. Fun it isn't. I've listened to enough of my relatives: It's either kill or be killed. There is no inbetween, nor do you get up like a football game and play again the next day. It's HELL for those in it. I'll never understand why you wierdos never get that. Many of my Democrat friends do and so do my Republican friends. I fly old glory over my house every day and proud of it.
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LordyLordy1 year, 4 months ago
Golly Miss Molly, nobody is saying the Iraqis are coming to America to fight, it's the stinking Muslim terrorists, and most, if not all are not from Iraq, but they are in Iraq, stirring up this grief. These people are not strong enough to defend themselves against them, just one reason is that they were intimidated by Sadam Insane for so many years. Why do you think the Southern blacks had to have help from the FBI to try to rid themselves of the threat of the KKK? It's all part of the pattern of intimidation by these Muslim terrorists, as bad, if not worse than communist insurgents, who if you do not toe their mark, simply murder you and your family. They were called the killing fields in Cambodia, Laos, and Viet Nam.
BTW: Latest intelligence reports indicate the terrorists are already planning another attack on the U.S. They're operatives already here. Be sure and tell the FBI, the CIA, and Homeland Security NOT to track them because it is against our constitutional rights.
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amesburyroad1 year, 4 months ago
You need to get off this self-righteous "you can't criticize the troops" sthtick. If I want to, I will. They are not fragile flowers who will wilt at the first criticism.
As far as them "coming here", we have to rely upon our intelligence and law enforcement and hope the administration shows more attention to threat indicators than the Bush regime did in the summer of 2001.
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LordyLordy1 year, 4 months ago
better take your meds then, or another shot of Jack Daniels. Afterwards then maybe you'll be able to forget your conscience which is telling you this criticism of your troops and their commanders is actually causing the death of more troops. If you want to criticize them, in battle is not the place to do it, on or off the news.
You know you're wrong but another shot of jack will dull your senses.
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IncaQueen1 year, 4 months ago
It exactly why the Iraqi's want to be free, as are the Afghans but they aren't strong enough to do it alone.
You think a vast majority of the Columbians want the drug cartels to live and operate out of there? You obviously have no idea what it's like to be forced to live in such a country.
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LordyLordy1 year, 4 months ago
Sometimes they have to have help.
If you think America managed to free itself of British rule without the help of let's say France and Spain, think again. We even had pirates out of New Orleans helping us gain our initial freedom.
Better dig out the old history book or stop sitting on it?
But I agree with the point that freedom comes at a price, and it is usually blood, often someone else's blood. I think I stand correct that it has never been wrestled from an oppressor through peaceful means. It has always been through bloodshed, with the attitude that I'll live free or I'll die. There is no compromise on that. I don't have much respect for those who are tushy kissers, politically correct thinking forced upon you, but doing the right thing, yes.
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LordyLordy1 year, 4 months ago
Sadly enough if the terrorists would leave Iraq, I firmly believe the U.S. will retreat from it and come home. They did that after Desert Storm, but sadly didn't finish the job right the first time. They let politicians, not soldiers dictate the peace terms. Of course if you are an accurate history student, this didn't begin there either. Back up the train 20-30-40 years. President Carter was soft on Iran. The terrorists viewed it as our weakness. Oddly enough I liked Carter then, but he was surrounded by folks who had little common sense. NOBODY denies this situation is a mess but retreat and surrender are not options, they're not wise.
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dunkirk1 year, 4 months ago
THanlks for making my point. The fact is when outlandish stories are posted the first reaction should be to verify and substantiate whats being posted. Unfortunately its what a lot of the righties seem incapable of doing, especially if it tends to reinforce the BS Bush has been feeding them for years.
ROFLMAO, maybe YOU can point out WHERE this is a bash America thread? I believe I said the video SHOULD be verified. Altho it appears, as with quite a few righties like LuvDaDork, Alfie, FSU, KOT,... that hate is all they see.
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IncaQueen1 year, 4 months ago
Precisely right CrazyRay. The vast majority of our troops are honorable men and women, whose morals, for the most part, are a cut above. To generalize all of our troops in this fashion, is as far as I'm concerned, pure trash. The article, the person who wrote it, and the paper it was used on needs to be turned into toilet paper.
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 4 months ago
''The vast majority of our troops are honorable men and women, whose morals, for the most part, are a cut above. To generalize all of our troops in this fashion, is...pure trash''
no offense, but how in the heck does that work in your head, starting a warning against generalization with the phrase 'the vast majority...'?
I mean that is, well...
...now wait a second-unless you know the vast majority. then I take it all back...
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LordyLordy1 year, 4 months ago
For those who have served in the military it's called the UCMJ DeadManTalking. The military have rules and regulations, and from the moment you become a member, those rules are taught you, and these rules and those who follow them, are I'm sorry, "the vast majority of our troops are honorable men and women", if not of themselves then because of the UCMJ.
But then I guess you think the vast majority of Americans are all corrupt and lack morals too. Sorry, there is a very large number, who, when given the choice, make the right choice, when they don't listen to media SPIN but think for themselves.
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blowback1 year, 4 months ago
> ..but it's a YouTube video, there's no proof the guy is a legit soldier or anything...Stan Goff really needs to verify this video before writing an article, using it as the entire basis of his story.
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"This video is not representative of a few bad apples. I'll wager that I am among the top 1% hereabouts in terms of how much experience I have with this culture... how much time I have spent in this lethal locker-room with the Boy-War Culture. This video of a former Abu Ghraib guard could have been shot of half the people I worked with in the Infantry and in Special Operations."
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CrazyRay1 year, 4 months ago
If he didn't stumble across that video, he wouldn't have written the article...it was the center of his story
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