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  Spadecaller7 months ago

  "What it is with you people that you have to be so sensitive?" A friendly acquaintance replied in a personal message in response to one of my recent comments about a story that was quite inflammatory against Jews. Was the questioner seriously looking for an answer? What do you think? Do the words, "you people" signify that I belong to a group of people known as the Jews, who are all too sensitive about matters of ethnic bigotry, and who should all shut up? Does the question dismiss the notion that there should be reason for some Jews to feel especially "sensitized" to anti-Semitic conduct?

  Many insist that anti-Semitism is a myth; that resentment toward the Jews is a justified. Many people exert great effort in promoting proof that the holocaust never occurred. "The Jews are loud mouth troublemakers." Have you witnessed these stereotypes? Do you find yourself sometimes being lured into believing them?

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    Spadecaller7 months ago

    What does it mean to bear witness? Does it not mean more than just remembering the horrors suffered by the Jews?

    A more precise meaning has emerged among many people from all different backgrounds, one that defends all victims of anti-Semitism and racial bigotry. To bear witness means to testify to an event â;; an event that has joined peace-loving people in a common cause dedicated to preventing the recurrence of violence, ethnic cleansing, and genocide.

    The holocaust was uniquely evil. Bearing witness to this acknowledges the lesson of history; when it fails to do that, the awareness of history only becomes a sterile portal of a bitter past.

    In the past five years, hate-crimes against Jews, vandalism of synagogues, and the desecration of Jewish cemeteries has more than tripled. Should it really be that surprising that Jewish people all over the world are concerned? Do you sometimes see these views reflected on Propeller?

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      BoxMonkey7 months ago

      I must say Spadecaller ; I've always felt , For real people can admit thier mistakes and grow from thier experiences . It is always difficult to admit or recognize when we are misinterpreted by another . So , that being said , I would like to Thank you for your recognition and I will try to write with more definition and detail and not shoot from the hip as I sometimes do . Thank you .

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        Spadecaller7 months ago

        Thanks for accepting my apology.

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        Pupi7 months ago

        I am SO very proud of you, Spade, AND BoxMonkey, for being understanding enough and wise enough to apologize (Spade) and accept (BoxMonkey) and strive to understand each other better in the future. I thank you both-- that was very heartwarming, and a goal we should all strive for!!!!

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      Endoscopy7 months ago

      The problem Spadecaller is that you are blind to your own bigotry. Anybody that puts Hitler up against any person or organization is saying something completely evil about that person or organization. Your bigotry comes through when you do that. You did it twice in succession. Both times against Christians.

      You did it the second time it almost seemed to me against a private message I sent you. To me it seemed like you were showing me how you thought of my message. I had told you basically what I said above.

      In that thread you objected to antisemitism at the same time you were calling Hitler a Christian. The pot calling the kettle black.

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        bobo-in-texas7 months ago

        I feel the pain of Spadecallers victimization.

        LOL! I just saw this sensitive and un-bigoted piece submitted by Spadecaller.

        http://www.propeller.com/viewstory/2008/01/29/t... &frame=true

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        MRCOFFEECAKE7 months ago

        calling Hitler a Christian is not bigoted.

        I don't get it.

        He was a bad Christian..so was Quasimoto, so were the witch burners, so were many kings etc..This does not make Christianity the victim of ridicule, it makes those who hide behind claiming to be Christian who commit un-Christian acts

        the victims of ridicule..and rightfully so..

        Hitler was a traitor to Christianity.

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          Radiofreeeuropa7 months ago

          I believe the article in question maintains that Hitler was no Atheist. There is no reason to claim he was a Rastafarian- what exactly is the beef? The truth is there are a hand full of ne'r do wells that have nothing to say about the material presented yet complain about every article submitted by SC.

          Instead of your pointless ad hominem attacks do you have anything at all to say about THIS article?

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      Blackacereturn7 months ago

      To address bigotry we must first address our politics and societal behaviors. Question is, how many of us here on this tread, who have been offended by bigots, looked the other way when our particular group is not the one being attacked. We as so call groups; be it race or religious affiliation are the culprits here. You cannot expect to do nothing when it's not your group and be shocked that your turn has come! A surviver of the Nazis said this, please correct me where I am wrong ;when they came for the cripple I did nothing, when they came for the Gipsy's I did nothing, by the time they came for me it was too late to do anything.;

      We are enablers of bigotry when we do nothing because the offense does no directly pertains to us.

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        Blackacereturn7 months ago

        I have argued harshly with Jewish members when there is a post against the Palestinians and against the Palestinians when there is one against the Jewish community. I have done the same for Gays... It might be my unique experience as a black man in a world where I am viewed as public enemy number one that I have come to my understanding, to end bigotry you must face it down whenever you encounter it, regardless of who is being offended. (Especially when it's not you who is being attacked).

        I have find that most of the times it is used to galvanize, our government does that so well,and we fall for it every time. Willie Horten and the list goes on. Who among us don't keep a keen eye on an Arab person weather they are on the buss at our jobs even if we have known them for years and know them to be of good character.

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          Blackacereturn7 months ago

          Take our news, it is consider a none event if you report on crime committed by whites, but news worthy if the crime was committed by a minority member of our society. The infectious nature of this behavior has put me in a tight spot quite often. I have never committed a serious crime, I have jay walked and maybe ran a red light or too...but I have been stopped by NY finest, I am profiled and so on...I say all this to make this point we are what we teach. Hate is learned it's innate!

          I used me as an example because i don't know any of you personally.

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        Spadecaller7 months ago

        blackacereturn

        Thank you for your commments.

        You should read the entire thread before making your comments, though; it might assist in making your remarks relevant to this forum.

        I, one among many here, have taken repeated action against the oppression of Palistinians, Muslims, Jews, Blacks, Atheists, sexism, and Gays. I categorically stand opposed to all forms of racism and bigotry. I submitted this story to help those of us who encounter it on propeller frequently.

        In addition to my own background, which is Jewish, I am frequently the target of antt-Semitism as many others are, either directly or indirectly. I hope you understand what I mean.

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          Blackacereturn7 months ago

          Spadecaller- My post is not an indictment of anyone on this thread, it's my view on why bigotry persist on here, and in society at large. If you in any way feel this was a slight of you or your positions then please accept my apologies...however I think you have misunderstood my intentions...please re-read my post maybe you might see it differently now.

          However, I find the subject interesting but do not share the need to berate anyone one individual, since I am at times guilty of having thoughts that if given could be called raciest. Not being without sin i will not condemn the sinner, that would be hypocritical of me.

          More over its too important a topic to waste on one person in my opinion.

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            Spadecaller7 months ago

            blackacereturn

            NO... I don't think it is an indictment of me at all. I find your comments add a good perspective to this forum. Please don't misunderstand me either.

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              Spadecaller7 months ago

              what the world needs

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhhZ2PDl-aM

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    hyperbola7 months ago

    Your protestations would have more value if the standards you claim to believe were applied equally to those you defend.

    The True Miracle of Israel

    Do No Evil â;; If there is any miracle in Israel's existence it is that the lies upon which it is founded could be perpetuated for so long, despite glaringly obvious truths to the contrary. Indeed, it is a miracle that such grave injustice could reign for so long uncontested.

    http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2008/01/28/...

    Why Israel Has No "Right to Exist" as a Jewish State

    Religion â;; The Annapolis meeting is a con. We should say loud and clear that Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state. To claim such a right to be racist must come from a being whose victim's face must hide very dark primordial aggression and hatred of all others.

    http://religion.propeller.com/story/2007/11/21/...

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      Candida7 months ago

      hyperbola,

      This is slightly off topic, but I can't resist saying a few words about your posts. I've read many of them, and from those where you actually write your opinion, I know that you are intelligent. I don't understand why you launch into these attacks on Israel almost independently of the topic. All you achieve is that people tune out or skip your messages. You would reach a lot more people if you expressed your opinions in your own words and discussed the topic at hand (as you sometimes do).

      Do you condone racism, bigotry, anti-Antisemitism in general, or do you feel the certain actions of Israel might fuel such sentiments? Just say what you mean, and if you want to support your arguments, link in those supporting documents.

      OK, I'll stop preaching and will restrain myself in the future.

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        walden37 months ago

        Excellent Candida. I too have tried to drag Hyper out of the shell, but to no avail.

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          Eagle_Eye7 months ago

          I've given up on hyper

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            Silverghost7 months ago

            Me too! Hyper shows the attitude of being smugly superior by linking to the bigoted sites that he submitted, trying vainly to steal the show. What nonsense! -Rev. S

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              Blackacereturn7 months ago

              I think Hyper has his place among us! You may be asking him to be something he is incapable of be. Just maybe.

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        splitrch7 months ago

        All he offers is propaganda, shabby, inferior propaganda at that. I put him on my ignore list a long time ago.

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        hyperbola7 months ago

        Yes I condemn racism and bigotry in general. Amongst the worst racists in the world are the zionists who have robbed, killed, expelled or put in concentration camps over 7 million christians and moslems.

        The zionists will tell you that the victimization of these christians and moslems in Palestine is "compensation" for crimes commitede by Nazis in Germany. However, zionism predated Hitler's crimes by over 50 years and clearly involved racism and ethnic cleansing from the beginning (see below). The roots or zionism are the same east european racism, colonialism and totalitarianism that gave rise to both Hitler and Stalin.

        Those like Spade who wish to condemn "anti-semitism" and claim rights (which I support) have a special obligation to also condemn racism and bigotry by their own tribe. Unfortunately, their loyalty to their tribe exceeds their commitment to human rights. I simply point out the hypocrisy of Spade and those like him.

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          hyperbola7 months ago

          Your reaction does not surprise me. This is the politically correct strain of american politics - it is shameful for american democracy to have supported such obvious racism for so long. We should be supporting jews who are consistent with the principles of american democracy (and there are many of them) rather than zionsts.

          JEWISH CRITICISM OF ZIONISM

          ... Ahad Ha-am (Hebrew for "One of the People" and the pen name for Asher Ginzberg), one of the greatest Jewish thinkers of this century, was also highly critical of Zionism.10 He drew attention to the fundamental and neglected ethical dilemma of Zionism, namely the presence of the Arabs. In his 1891 report, The Truth from Palestine, he pointed out that "there was little untilled soil in Palestine, except for stony hills and sand dunes." Ahad Ha-am also warned the Jewish settlers against arousing the wrath of the large native Arab population:

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            hyperbola7 months ago

            Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in freedom, and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause, and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination.11

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              hyperbola7 months ago

              Ahad Ha-am wrote this statement when Zionist settlers formed only a tiny portion of the population of Palestine. He also gave the following warning: "We think. . . that the Arabs are all savages who live like animals and do not understand what is happening around. This is, however, a great error."12

              Ahad Ha-am worked tirelessly for an intellectual and spiritual revival of the Jewish people. His belief in Zion was of a spiritual and prophetic nature. In 1913 he attacked the Zionist labor movement's racial boycott of Arab labor:

              Apart from the political danger, I can't put up with the idea that our brethren are morally capable of behaving in such a way to men of another people; and unwittingly the thought comes to my mind: if it is so now, what will be our relation to the others if in truth we shall achieve "at the end of time" power in Eretz Israel? If this be the "Messiah," I do not wish to see his coming.13

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                hyperbola7 months ago

                ... Israel Zangwill, one of Herzl's earliest and strongest supporters, eventually turned against the idea of establishing a Jewish state in Palestine. Ironically it was Zangwill who coined the phrase "a land without a people for a people without a land." It was this phrase that became the potent rallying call for Zionist settlement in Palestine.14

                It was not until 1904 that Zangwill realized that there was a fundamental problem with the Zionist program. In a speech given in New York in that year he explained:

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                  hyperbola7 months ago

                  There is. . . a difficulty from which the Zionist dares not avert his eyes, though he rarely likes to face it. Palestine proper has already its inhabitants. The pashalik of Jerusalem is already twice as thickly populated as the United States, having 52 souls to every square mile, and not 25 percent of them Jews; so we must be prepared either to drive out by the sword the tribes in possession as our forefathers did, or to grapple with the problem of a large alien population, mostly Mohammedan.. . . This is an infinitely graver difficulty than the stock anti-Zionist taunt that nobody would go to Palestine if we got it. . . .15

                  Zangwill and many other leading Zionists split from the movement in 1905 ....

                  http://www.mepc.org/journal/9012_corrigan.asp

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          MRCOFFEECAKE7 months ago

          So, what do you think of the Holocaust victims and Jews and general? Are all Americans just cowboys who took land from the Indians?

          So, do individual Jews have rights? Do you consider most Jews as Zionists? Do you believe that there is enough land to skip over what happened 60 years ago to 200 years ago when the British controlled Palestine , or should you skip 500 years before that when the Jews still wern't the rightful occupants of Judea

          Or do you want to go back to 1400AD when the Romans still occupied the middle East. Perhaps we should jump a few more milleniums back to 300 BC when the land was back in the hands and control of the Pharoahs and warlords..

          Oh yeah, those were the years of Judea when the Jews had a homeland. Or go back before that to Greek occupation?

          You just want history to go back to when it is most convenient for you yet inconvenient for others.

          Can we go back to my High School years where mom and dad paid for everything?

          PLEASE

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            hyperbola7 months ago

            Your argument is logically equivlant to this: If once uypon a time, somewhere there was a murderer, then I am entitled to murder anyone I like for my own profit and/or pleasure.

            Unlike you, I do not believe that any ideology has rights, be it nazism, stalinism, maoism or zionism. Individual human beings have rights - like not being subjected to robbing, killing, expulsion or placement in what are effectively concentration camps, as the zionists have done with over 7 million christians and moslems.

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              hyperbola7 months ago

              I recommend this article from an israeli professor of international law to you.

              Why Israel Has No "Right to Exist" as a Jewish State

              Religion â;; The Annapolis meeting is a con. We should say loud and clear that Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state. To claim such a right to be racist must come from a being whose victim's face must hide very dark primordial aggression and hatred of all others...

              .. only by individuating cases of injustice, by extending claims for injustice to all historic Palestine, by fair address of them without creating another injustice for Jews and finally by ensuring the elimination of all racist laws that stems from the Jewish nature of the state including that nature itself, would justice be, and with it peace, possible...

              http://religion.propeller.com/story/2007/11/21/...

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              MRCOFFEECAKE7 months ago

              Please do not tell me what I believe, and whatever you do, please do not re characterize my points to ridiculousness.

              I do not support any form of murder. I was merely asking you

              who really owns the land.

              I do not believe any ideology has he right to be oppressive either.

              So, when you are done finger pointing and spitting into the wind I will ask you for what must be the 15th time.

              What do you suggest are the rationale and reasonable next several steps toward peaceful coexistence.

              THAT is the only question at hand.

              If you do not respect the concept of a small Jewish state then it would appear that you are supporting those who wish to ethnically cleanse the region of all Jews.

              Please, for once, answer.

              Why would the world accept the concept of 31 Islamic nations, that have been carved out from one another, and still looking to redefine world geography, including the most recent violent efforts in Kashmir and Soviet Georgia, but oppose one miniscule Jewish state?

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                walden37 months ago

                Silence from Hyper.

                I'm not surprised.

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                  MRCOFFEECAKE7 months ago

                  You ask a good, clear, constructive, decent and progressive question and there is silence on behalf of humanity.

                  This is a classic example of blind irreversible hatred from

                  a people who are so set in their unreasonable beliefs that asking them for a reasonable step by step solution becomes a threat to their festering hatred..

                  So, we can just expect more ridiculous and unrealistic demands

                  for all Jews to vacate the region, even though those articles do not demand same..

                  Those article were similar to those of abolitionists, even though what Israel has is not as bad as slavery, or Apartheid it is a form of segregation and can be mitigated with clear heads and real leadership from all sides..

                  If the blacks were calling for the elimination of a "white" government we would still have segregation, wouldn't we??

                  Don't these people understand that we all need to fight for one step first, or they will never move forward. A "leap" is

                  not realistic. They hurt their own cause!

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          walden37 months ago

          I have never seen the argument made that "that the victimization of these christians and moslems in Palestine is "compensation" for crimes commitede by Nazis in Germany."

          I haven't.

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      Klarissa7 months ago

      don't use the word "we". If that is what you believe, say so, don't put it off on others on here.

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    hyperbola7 months ago

    By the same token, criticism of zionist treason to America is not only acceptable, but required for American democracy.

    A Timeline of ZionCon Treason

    Do No Evil â;; Marc Grossman, formerly the number three man in the State Department, is implicated in efforts to provide U.S. nuclear secrets to Pakistan and Israel. A dual Israeli-American national, Grossman has promoted the neocon agenda of forcing "regime change" in the Middle East.

    http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2008/01/29/...

    None Dare Call It Treason

    Politics â;; Who is stealing our nuclear secrets â⻬" and why are they being shielded by the authorities?

    http://politics.propeller.com/story/2008/01/28/...

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      hyperbola7 months ago

      Plame connected to State Department Treason

      Politics â;; AN investigation into the illicit sale of American nuclear secrets was compromised by a senior official in the State Department, who tipped off a foreign contact about a bogus CIA company used to investigate the sale of nuclear secrets. Valerie Plame was outed to stop the treason investigation.

      http://politics.propeller.com/story/2008/01/27/...

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      MRCOFFEECAKE7 months ago

      The desire to promote democracy around the world is our strongest motivation.Period!

      Don't you understand that?

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        Silverghost7 months ago

        Hyper's strongest motivation is to promote himself. The links that he provides are all his own submissions. -Rev. S

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          hyperbola7 months ago

          Tell that to this jewish-american survivor of the Holocaust Silver. Afraid of the truth are you?

          What is the lesson to be learned from the Holocaust?

          Religion â;; Hedy Epstein, is a German Jewish Holocaust survivor, born in 1924, whose parents perished in Auschwitz. In 1948, Hedy Epstein went to live in US. In 2003, she made a trip to Palestine. Shocked by the oppression that the Israeli government is imposing on Palestinians, she is devoting herself to make it known to the world.

          http://religion.propeller.com/story/2008/01/14/...

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            MRCOFFEECAKE7 months ago

            You found one??

            gee, I found a few black politicians who believe that we

            should pay for all blacks to move back to Africa. I found a few white scholars who believe that we should give the land back to the Indians.

            I found a few Indians who believe that their tribal leaders are corrupt.

            There are many blacks who oppose Affirmative action..So, what is your point, now that you found one or two of the millions of survivors?

            Do you even care to listen to the remaining 9 million that the Germans didn't extinguish? (or is just one or two good enough for you??)..

            Ok, with that logic, Salomom Rushdie is the ultimate authority and final word on Islam, ok??

            Remember his book??

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              hyperbola7 months ago

              Why are you so determined to deny those who tell you your story of "zionist israel" is a cruel fable? There are many more jews with morals who do not make that decision.

              Gilad Atzmon - The Tzabar and the Sabbar

              Religion â;; Zionism is a total disaster - colonial, expansionist, nationalist philosophy based on racial chauvinism. Hebraic cultural realty, slang, food, blue sky, sea, desert, spring and autumn, hills and valleys, olive trees... all belong to the land (Palestine) rather than the swelling apartheid State that seized it momentarily (Israel).

              http://religion.propeller.com/story/2008/01/05/...

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                hyperbola7 months ago

                The End Of Israel?

                Religion â;; As a Jewish-American, I know that while it might be scary to some, while it will require a lot of imagination, the end of Israel as a Jewish state could mean the beginning of democracy, human rights, and some semblance of justice in a land that has almost forgotten what that means.

                http://religion.propeller.com/story/2007/12/23/...

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          hyperbola7 months ago

          Or tell it to this jewish israeli.

          The Ethnic Cleansing Goes On

          Do No Evil â;; It's not about a clash between Jews and Palestinians. It's matter of colonialism. Today there are opinion movements of young Jews, in Europe and in the US, who point the finger at Israel's colonialist policies and accuse it as a colonialist and racist state, not because it is a state founded by Jews."

          http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2008/01/21/...

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            walden37 months ago

            why does it matter that he's Jewish?

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              Bkumm7 months ago

              That's exactly right.

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              hyperbola7 months ago

              Well Walden, by ethnic cleansing, the 35% of jews in palestine have managed to make themselves a majority (in some regions of palestine) over the 65% christian and moslem majority. You don't think it is relevant that jewish citizens of the zionist state of israel condemn the colonialism and racism of their country?

              Wouldn't you be one of the first screaming "anti-semite" if a christian or moslem said the same?

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                walden37 months ago

                I don't classify people based on religion like you do. I try to judge an idea based upon its merit.

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    MRCOFFEECAKE7 months ago

    You have said a lot of nothing..You sound like Lyndon LaRouche..

    (He's a wordful conspiracy theorist too)

    As a matter of fact, he is the Prince of the run-on thought.

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    jovial7 months ago

    You deserved it. LOL! WHA! WHA! WHA!

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    dissent7 months ago

    Wow....

    You're one of those "enough about me, what do you think of me?" kind of people. Borrrrrring.

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  Bkumm7 months ago

  I must be clear. This submission is about racism and bigotry on Propeller. It is not about a particular form of racism or bigotry, but about this behavior in all of its forms.

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    Spadecaller7 months ago

    Though I am particularly "sensitive" to anti-Semitism, anyone who know mw know that I am opposed to bigotry in all its manifestatiosn. I see them all demonstrated from time to time.

    Atheists, Homosexuals, gender, and race are all targets by some people in both the virtual world and on Propeller. To deny, dismiss, or deflect the conversation by personal attacks has been a common practice by some individuals on propeller. Have you not seen this too?

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      Bkumm7 months ago

      I just want to be clear that this is not just a submission pertaining to hatred against Jews, but against all bigotry.

      I have seen the practice. I've also seen some other practices that I find difficult to handle as well.

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        Spadecaller7 months ago

        bkumm

        God forbid anyone should dare focus their comments on one particular form of bigotry -- especially anti-Semitism; we surely don't want anyone to think that hatred is not an equal opportunity employer.

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          Bkumm7 months ago

          You can do that anytime you want from your web-site. On Propellertalk we talk about the community entire, not just one segment of it.

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          Spadecaller7 months ago

          "On Propellertalk we talk about the community entire"

          The entire community is made up of individuals with varied backgrounds and a treasure trove of personal experiences; to deny that, you deny the community of its richest resources.

          I thought any form of bigotry from our collective experiences as members on Propeller would be acceptable. Are you suggesting that we must follow your presribed manner of sharing our personal experiences on the subject?

          I didn't understand the rules when I posted this story on Propeller Talk; if I knew that I might have reconsidered.

          Are you representing your personal opinion or have you ordained yourself the authority over what we can discuss on this forum?

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            Bkumm7 months ago

            I'm suggesting that you try to focus on what is important to the community as a whole and not on your particular part of it.

            And thank you very much for continuing Oscar's argument that somehow I'm trying to "control" what you say. I appreciate that very much, especially coming from you.

            You can say whatever you wish, I was making a suggestion as one of the people associated with the web-site on which you published. Do as you will.

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              Spadecaller7 months ago

              Bkumm

              Sorry that I remind you of Oscar. I suspect that you have been affected by him, but your comparison is unfair.

              But you are getting off topic and makeing this a personal issue. Let's keep the focus, as you so carefully have instructed.

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                Bkumm7 months ago

                Yes, lets.

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                Spadecaller7 months ago

                I have no harsh words for Muslims or "illegals". Personal accusations from my good friend, aceofspadesm, only muddy the waters for respectful discussion.

                It is a pleasure to see people who can free themselves from their petty grudges and discuss an important subject with some decorum. What can you do? :~)

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            aceofspades17 months ago

            I am sick & tired of watching SC wear the cloak of victim, once you put it on you are forever relegated to be one.

            Sure there is bigotry & intolerance & anti-semitism rampant on these threads, but to censor them or ban them would be blinding ourselves to the realities of what is out & about.

            Everyone has some prejudices, it is human nature, it is the mechanism we use to make ourselves unique, if only in our own minds.

            SC has said some harsh things about illegals, others have demonized Muslims & others have said things about other cultures from pure ignorance.

            I believe everyone should have their say - then crucify them

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              Bkumm7 months ago

              "I believe everyone should have their say - then crucify them"

              **sarcasm**

              Don't you know that many, many, many Christians were crucified? What, are you bigoted against Christians?

              **

              Truly, it's gone that far.

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                aceofspades17 months ago

                AWWWW c'mon -- sensitivity amok-- OK I'll concede poor choice of words. Shouls I have said gas em? - behead em? starve em ?

                Or perhaps elect them?

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                  aceofspades17 months ago

                  **sarcasm**

                  Don't you know that many, many, many Christians were crucified? What, are you bigoted against Christians

                  Propeller dropped the post I was replying to.

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                    aceofspades17 months ago

                    Have you noticed that SpadeCaller has negged all my posts - when you neg someone you remove their comment from you own thread -

                    WTG Spade - a real show 0of tolerance - & self delusion.

                    If someone posts something contrary to what I do I never neg them I want to be reminded of what they said.

                    SpadeCaller doesn't operate that way - disagree & get eliminated - bigot!

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            splitrch7 months ago

            I oppose racial, ethnic and religious bigotry because I am a Jew. To do otherwise would be hypocritical.

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              Bkumm7 months ago

              You oppose it because you're a Jew or you oppose it because you're a decent human being?

              I don't oppose it because I'm German. I don't oppose it because I'm Irish. I don't oppose it because I'm an atheist.

              I oppose it because it's wrong.

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                Spadecaller7 months ago

                bkumm

                For whatever reason he opposes it,it is good.

                Why do you have to be so contentious with every remark made? The idea of this thread is to invite people to share.

                So what if you, Bkumm, don't oppose it because you are German. But maybe, if you grew up being exposed to racist or anti-Semitic threats, it would also be natural for you to be opposed to it becuase of your heritage or identity.

                Isn't that possible? Does that make him/her less than? Maybe you can be big enough to assume that he/she opposes it because he/she is a decent human being too...

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                  Bkumm7 months ago

                  Why is it that every time I post something you assume that I'm being contentious?

                  I'm trying to make a point. My opinion is that we shouldn't oppose prejudice because we're Jewish,Black, Green, Yellow or worship the Great God Malarky. We should oppose prejudice because it's wrong.

                  When we say, "I do this because I'm a German" or we say, "I do this because I'm Catholic" and it is something that is not cultural, but simply decent humanity, it separates us.

                  It's my opinion on the matter. Do you think I'm attacking splitrch? I'm not. I asked a question and gave my opinion, nothing more.

                  I didn't suggest that a person was less or more. I don't know where you get that.

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                  Candida7 months ago

                  Bkumm has a good point. If we oppose only those attacks that affect us personally, we may remain blind to injustices that affect others. It shouldn't be only those who are not WASPs who oppose racism, and it shouldn't be only women who oppose sexism, and it shouldn't be only homosexuals who oppose discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, it should be all of us. When we place our common humanity ahead of our racial, sexual, ethnic, religious differences, it's a lot easier to empathize with all victims of injustice, not just with those who are similar to us or who are subject to the same kind of injustice.

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                    Bkumm7 months ago

                    Well put. Thanks for getting the point.

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                      dissent7 months ago

                      Bkumm: "When we say, "I do this because I'm a German" or we say, "I do this because I'm Catholic" and it is something that is not cultural, but simply decent humanity, it separates us."

                      Spot on, Bkumm. Put yourself in a box and the generic label "you people" gets stuck on it by anyone who isn't in the box with you.

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                        splitrch7 months ago

                        We are are all individuals. However, some of us have to overcome other people's perceptions of what we are like - without even knowing us personally. So, if I just put myself in that particular box so be it. Don't read more into my statements than what is there. If someone is motivated by faith to be non-judgmental of others why is that a bad thing?

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                          dissent7 months ago

                          Don't worry, I don't think I said it was but lots of faiths talk that talk and a lot of talk there is too. But I haven't seen one yet that walks the walk. Oh I'm sorry, am I being judgemental? Then again I'm not claiming not to be either. Just trying to avoid opining on people in boxes one way or the other.

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                            splitrch7 months ago

                            whatever works for you is cool if you wind up in a good place.

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                              RickyDawkins7 months ago

                              Or neither place.

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                          Bkumm7 months ago

                          Why do you assume that I'm saying it's a bad thing? I'm saying that when you say that you're doing it for X reason (whatever that reason may be) you set yourself up for people that will attack you for that reason.

                          If, on the other hand, you say that you are against racism because it's the right thing to do, you are taking a stand against it based on the one thing that we all have in common...we are all human.

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                            splitrch7 months ago

                            Bkumm, I didn't mean to give you a neg. In fact I had a nice answer for you and then Wham - I hit the wrong button and lost my statement and gave you an erroneous neg!!

                            What I was going to say is that if someone wants to call me a dirty word because I'm Jewish (or anything else), it says more about them than it says about me. I think you are just concerned that if somebody leads with their chin somebody else may want to take a swing at it, so why put yourself in that position? I can take care of myself and I'm not as easily offended as I was when I was younger. I would hope my feelings for other people - their basic goodness - would be the same whether I was Jewish or not.

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                              Bkumm7 months ago

                              These things happen. I don't worry much about it these days unless I don't get a response.

                              What concerns me is that when we define our outrage about racism by our race, color, creed or sexual orientation we can find ourselves focusing on racism in one particular way and not about the issue as a whole.

                              Prejudice against anyone is wrong. Let's say that I'm a Black, Asian, Christian who is related to Louis Farrakhan. But, I define my outrage against prejudice by the fact that I'm a woman. So, I hear things in line at the store that may be slanted towards Jews, Whites and Buddhists. Do I have the same outrage as I have when I hear someone say something against women? I would argue that I wouldn't. If that's the case then I'm actually feeding the fire. Do you laugh when someone calls an Irishman a "drunken Mick"? Let's see if that word posts.

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                                Bkumm7 months ago

                                Does anyone else find it troublesome that a word that has been used to define and deride the Irish for centuries posts with no problem? I do and that pretty much proves my point.

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                    splitrch7 months ago

                    I couldn't have stated my position better than that.

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                    david_nwpa7 months ago

                    I agree to a point. Your comments are well-taken, but far too frequently, our allies stop at the gay/straight border and do not cross it. For those who claim that we should not discriminate based on sexual orientation, ask yourself, would you accept your son or daughter marrying someone of the same gender? If you say no, ask yourself why. Despite all this talk about ending discrimination, it lingers on in society because we condone it. Whether we fight for gays, Jews, Germans, Gypsies, or green-eyed people who were born on Tuesdays in May, discrimination runs rampant because we separate ourselves from one another far too rapidly. We are the human race, not a series of races based on skin color. We are humans who happen to have gender (even though some of us are not sure which one). We love based on our hearts, not our minds. Why can't we accept that everyone is unique?

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                      splitrch7 months ago

                      You're right to point out that all discrimination is evil. BTW, I'm a Jew of German heritage and I have green eyes. My family moved around allot when I was a kid too......

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